Hagins; Yeah 89' was when I was turning 24 ,... listening to a lotta shit like Captain Beyond ,...and experimenting with weird drum beats,... I was getting a bit of a reputation for drums by 89 era,.. which I kinda hated because my singing was so important to me,. but I was a pretty rad drummer, no doubt,.. our three piece line up was BY THEN PRETTY MUCH unbeatable shit,..the way we looked, the way we stood there, rocked out,..my drumming definitely propelled those 2 clowns,..to a higher level,.. but being a singer from the drums,..took a lotta practice back at THE 251 garage,... I was a perfectionist ,..I had to nail the drums with energy exact like Keith Moon or Neil Peart ,..but I had to nail the lead vocals as i drummed,.. live, ,..AND,..the vocals were way different from the studio,..nothing like them,.. in fact,..much more bass in them live,..had to be,..to get above the drums,.. We were starting to play amazing shit live ,..but we totally struggled with "A Current Affair" ,, that weird beat ,..sorta like "Dancing Madly Backwards" By Captain Beyond,..I just couldn't pull it,..but all the 4/ 4 shit was very doable,..and we were insane live,.. THE BEST !! THE LOUDEST, THE SWEATIEST !!
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Metal-Jimmy; Yeah Yeah Blah Blah ,..you're a self proclaimed legend ,.. the Ty Cobb of garage rock,.. but let's get to the real story behind G.e. ,..Now,..when did you meet the 2 douchebags who later signed Nirvana , the Geffen Connection n' all ,..lol ??
Hagins: This happened long before indie and Alternative rock would break out in the Early 1990's ,... I would meet Craig Aaronson at a record shop up in Hollywood one day while putting down flyers for a G.e. gig ,.. but this was some time back in 1988 ,.. he told me that he "was connected" to A & R People but that he did not yet actually have a job at any Record Labels , he told me that he played in bands around town ,..and he also wondered if I was 'connected to anything" ,.lol,..
Metal-Jimmy ; Did you give him a G.e. tape then ?
Hagins; "FUCK ,..yes,..of course,.. he got Global Warming and my phone number, etc,.. and it wasn't long before he called me ,..at 251,..
Metal-Jimmy ; So what happened,..did he like it,..??
Hagins: FUCK ,..DID HE LIKE IT ??,...he was completely Blown away and he said he would "give it to others" ,.he gushed to me that he had NEVER heard a sound like "Precarious" and "Number One" and all this shit,.. he said it was the highest Energy shit,.. like maybe the Yardbirds,..type shit,...very 60's vibe,..yet totally up to date,.. he mentioned that he was going to give all my stuff to this guy named Gary ,.. and he gave me an address in West Los Angeles,..to mail him more stuff that he needed,..8 X 10 glossies ,..etc,.. better pics than I had already given him,.. I put together one of our Promo packages,..which were always the best in rock ,.. and mailed all the Shit to the guy ,..then suddenly ,..I would see him down in the South Bay,..I would bump into him at record shops DOWN HERE,.. he seemed big interested in Redondo Beach quickly I saw,..lol , I remember telling him,..the odds at finding another G.e. around here are slim,..BUDDY ,.. and that we were a rare thing and that we "Were not the typical sound,..of the South Bay" lol,.. rummaging around Hermosa won't do ya much good !"
METAL JIMMY ; DID you ever hear anything,.? did you follow up ?? with your tapes,.
Hagins; I mean,..i would call the guy,..I did what I could ,.. but I didn't wanna bug the dude too much ,..shit,..sheesh,..believe me,.. bro,.I TRIED,..I AM ME BRO,..A PRETTY PESKY PERSISTENT ,..DUDE HERE,.. I remember I told Flipper and Ted didn't seem real interested JUST thought I was full of shit as usual,.lol,..,... We were drunks n stoners,..remember,.. but I "knew" we were onto something and that,..it WAS UP TO ME,.. !!,..ALSO I KNEW,..We had to keep moving forward,..with our music,..our sound,.. !!I explored 'other" connections too,.. I would meet up with ,..a guy named Larry Coven who said he was connected to Electra Records, etc,.. I mean dude shit,..bro,..I met all these people,.but you know L.A,..it's crowded,..it's tough ,..and it was ALL HEAVY METAL 1988, 89, 90, ,...EVEN Most of 91' !!
METAL ; I SEE FLIPPER sings a track from your second album,..I should say your Ep,..the colored vinyl,.. "Six Feet Under" kinda rad little song,..
Hagins: yes,.. "The Four Song E.p." ,..cost me like 1000.00 $ to make ,..a lot of money back in 1989 !! ,..to still be putting out a vinyl !! I sold them all out though,..now,, I wish I had one,..( lol ),, My wife today Veleda,..she loves the song 3/4 ( which is played in 3/4 time or 6/8 or ,..whatever,.. another one of my fucked up drumming oriented ideas , LOL ),.. which was about that chick named Tania ,..( lol ) who got married,..
Metal: the vibe for G.e. must have been growing huge !! 89'
Hagins; Yeah,..it was,..but things come and go,..ebbs and flows,.. the way I look back at it now,..1988 was a way better year,... no way to cut through that L.A Hair metal scene , and Bam Magazine shit n all,..1989,.. these were simply "Not" alternative rock or emo times,..at all,..lol ,, believe me,..a douchebag like you would have loved 89' ,..LOL !!
Metal-Jimmy ; So you get to 1990 and now you guys have some amazing shit,.."Coke Snorting" and "Waiting for your Love to Fail" , Immorally Moral ,.. the buzz must have been ridiculous ,..
Hagins,.. By 1990, G.e. were playing bigger shows,... a huge gig at Wilson Park in Torrance in front of like 2000 people,.. and no doubt, Hollywood had taken notice of us,.. but the shit with Bam Magazine was weird , They fully took my shit out of context , printed weird shit, I was talking to Attorneys,..'wanted to sue these Losers,, ! ,..my sister died in May 1990,..right in the middle of our recording,.. all kindsa weird shit goin' down, alotta people hated me,.. South Bay drama shit ,.. but things were about to get really odd for G.e. ,... we were about to take a turn,..into the Twilight Zone,...
Hagins: Our egos had gotten huge ,... I made the stupid suggestion to put me at lead singer only and for us to look for a drummer,.. We found a guy named Mike,..this Mexican dude,..who was pretty good on drums,.. we found him in the Recycler Paper -the CraigsList of the day ( lol ),..AND ,.. a lot of people were like "Shark,..yer the Great Drummer,..why are you just singing,..? you are killing the special magic trio thing that IS G.E. " ,..I DIDN'T CARE,.. I wanted to get signed badly and I figured a more "Normal" 4 piece band was the way to go ,...
Metal-Jimmy ; "But G.e. is NOT A FOUR PIECE,... YOU GUYS were a natural three-some,.. you guys going 4 ,..that would be like Rush putting Geddy on lead vocals and hiring a bassist,..bad move !! IT KILLS YOUR WHOLE IMAGE !! MIKE WATT WOULD ,..be bummed,..
Hagins: yeah,..we didn't think it through,.. We didn't ,.like,.. know it at the time,..but I sorta did,..the Mike Valencia Version of the band was actually kinda Professional-ish live,.. trouble was,..G.e. were not Pro's,..we were HOBBIEST'S ,..very skilled high energy amateurs,..very erratic,.. yet tight also,..very exact !! Think like,..The 1967 ?Who !! Perfectionists ,..yet idealists,..performance art,..self destruction !! THEATRE OF THE ABSURD AND,...UH,... With Mike, we almost became like just any other metal band,.. and I wanted no part of metal !! I listened to stuff like Black Flag,.. AND,.. stuff like firehose or the Minute Men and their three piece,, very appealing !! I wanted to be in Flipside Magazine ,..Not Bam !! I WANTED REAL CRED !!
Metal Jimmy; How did the final days with Flipper go ?
Hagins "; Very awkward,.. I had all these songs at home,..THAT OVER MANY YEARS,..I had WRITTEN 'ON GUITAR",,..kinda secretly ,..sorta like a Dave Grohlish TYPE Douchebag,.. .. I wanted G.e. to go in the direction of a Flipside like Punker OR INDIE TYPE three piece,.. yet still have long hair,.. I don't really know where this inspiration was coming from AS I WASN'T REALLY INTO THAT SCENE MYSELF ,.,.. all i knew was that I no longer wanted to jam with Flipper,..his stuff was getting way too metal,.. there was this awkward meet up where me and Ted saw him with another band at the studio,..very weird,..but in late 1990; America the Beautiful, Wilson Phillips, and Ben is Dead,..they had to be BORN !! AND THEY WERE !!
METAL JIMMY; THE NEW PUNKER "INDIE" G.E. !! GRUNGE ,..LOL ! late 1990 !! and I never got to see you douchebags Live either , damn !! Let's go south bay surfin' !!
HAGINS; AWE YES,... LET'S BE ,.."GOING LEGIT " 1991 !!
METAL JIMMY ; NOW,..YOU GUYS TURNED IN A WHOLE NEW DIRECTION,,IT WAS THIS WHOLE NEW SOUND AND "STAR" WAS DEFINITELY SOME KIND OF INDIE ROCK "REVOLUTION" ,..WHERE THE FUCK did that and all these new songs originate,.? ??
Hagins; Like I said,... building up a ton of demo songs from over the 1980's ,..jamming when I lived below Cindy in 1986, cranking Sabbath,..but also getting into Bowie, The Who, and GENESIS ,THE TUBES,...Genesis ..THE GABRIEL YEARS,..AND JUST 'AFTER",..the first three Phil Collins Singing records,.. AND ROXY MUSIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fuck yeah,..and the Tube's Remote Control !!
METAL JIMMY; STAR, Ben is Dead, and Hey Negrita,..22nd Street, God's Joke,..heavy shit man !! AMAZING ALBUM !
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Hagins: Yes ,..late 1990 and early 91', some awesome music,..working with the late Billy Krodel,.. but then we met this guy named Andy Houston,,..amazing studio engineer,.. and on real minimal gear down there in Harbor City ,..we recorded "22nd Street" and all this amazing shit !! But 1991, here is where the G.e. story gets weird man , Craig Aaronson comes back into the picture,..and I was like "Where the fuck have you been asshole ?? lol "
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Metal-Jimmy ; So he heard going Legit,..what did he think of it,..??
Hagins; WELL,... he was more blown away than ever before,.. he said it was "Genius" his words not mine and that we had really come along way since that other tape in 88',.. I told him that we actually had like 40 BRAND NEW songs but that,..we could only afford to record like 8 to 10,..LOL,,
Metal Jimmy ; So ,..Let's talk about 1991, a pivotal year for G.e. ,.. You and Ted ,..the "New" three piece,.. So which drummer did you guys jam with first ?? Was it Greg or Marty ??
Hagins; Actually ,..it was Mike !! Me and Ted tried to play with him for a few rehearsals ,.. it just wasn't happening because his drumming was suited more to metal,,.And then we jammed with Palle for a bit who we found in a paper,.BUT,.. then,,..one night I heard this dude just hammering the drums inside a room,..like Bonham meets Moon,.. I waited around and when I saw the big dude unloading his gear,..I was like: You're hired for G,.e Bro !! It was Marty Silva !!
METAL ; DID he play the Drums on the "White Black Song" from March 91' ,, ?arguably the definitive G.e. "Grunge" Song,.. WAS HE ON "Manipulation" ??
Hagins; No ,..that was all me,.,.all instruments except for bass,..carefully over-dubbed with Krodel,..,.quite a process,..Yeah,.. when I heard of all the racial shit in LA, the video taped beating of Rodney King all over the news, I was inspired to come up with this unusual amazing track I DO NOT KNOW FROM WHERE !,..it just came into my brain,..like a vision,..I carefully recorded every instrument on it,.. I knew I had something that day indeed !! I envisioned these real heavy guitars but that it was not Metal and with these pounding drums that almost grooved to like a Pop Dance beat !!,.. Like G n R meets the Cure meets Def Leppard meets The Cult meets Bowie !! Ted knew it too, He plays the bass,.. Marty was one of the early people to hear the track; he was blown away !! So was Aaronson !! AND SO TOO ,..WERE LOTS OF PEOPLE !! I believe this Track ,... may have been,.... "The original organized Grunge Song" ,...
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Metal Jimmy; What were those early rehearsals like with Marty ,..?
Hagins: Amazing,..ya know ,..I had to talk Marty into jammin' with us,.. I think he didn't think we were good enough,..but when he heard that tape,.. he was there like the next day ,.. and the very first time we ever jammed,.. we were insane tight,.. like we had been playing for 8 years or some shit !! all just from the three of us,..independently ,..listening to our tape,..
LOL,.. We were that good !!
Metal-Jimmy; But things didn't last long with Marty ??
Hagins; Marty was a rad drummer,... but I think our personalities didn't click or something,.. it was really weird in there,..he was a cool dude, but smoked a hella lotta pot , we played like three killer gigs with him,.. but I let him go June 1991, that's when we found Greg Tarpley !! And this guy fit RIGHT WITH GE. !! I call "This" the CLASSIC G.E. LINE UP !! 1991 !!
METAL ; Another Wilson Stadium gig ,.. 1991 ,..did you guys film that one ? I heard that was sick !!
Hagins: We should have ! We should have been more organized,..this was a key gig !! Somebody in the crowd filmed it ,.. but I've never seen it ,.. very tight,.."22nd Street" I remember was amazing ,.. Whole gig was insanely good gig,.. Me and Arronson arranged for Craig to be there,..but he never showed that day ,..bummer,..cause we probably woulda got signed ! ( LOL ),..a key missed destiny moment,.. That was June 1991 ,..an awesome month !! More amazing gigs would follow,..and then comes the legendary one we all know ,..at the Hermosa Saloon August 16, 1991 !! The one you have all seen online ,..all around the world !! THE CLASSIC !
Metal: Do you think this guy Aaronson ripped off G.e. ?? Do you really believe these guys at Geffen just signed Nirvana ,..all because of you guys ,.? You think YOU ARE REALLY THE ONE WHO REALLY INVENTED GRUNGE HUH ?? AND SO TOO ,.do a lotta people back in the South Bay,..??
Hagins; "Well ,...look at the footage from Hermosa Saloon,..that is EXACTLY THE WAY WE LOOKED SINCE ABOUT SEPTEMBER 1990 ,..ME, Ted, and a drummer,.,..You tell me bro !,.... We would film ourselves, take endless pictures,.. record endless songs, albums, and everybody in town gloated about us,.. YOU TELL ME BRO !,, I THINK Nirvana had similar ideas about rock ,..because they were three guys BACK IN THAT TIME,.. just coincidentally,..who loved punk AND INDIE ,. rock,..and hated metal too,.,..AND ALL IN THAT Magical WEIRD TIME !....only they weren't from Los Angeles,..which was all metal,..they were from Seattle !! a better place to be from,...at that IMPORTANT time,..IN ROCK'S HISTORY !! WE MADE THE critical mistake of being From Redondo ,..lol,.
METAL JIMMY; THAT GIG AUGUST 16, 1991,..it sticks with me,..and alotta' people,..so many people,..because of the similarities,... both you and Kurt had these troubled family and childhood backgrounds shit,.,..so alike !! Both weird poets,..!! So strange man,. VERY WEIRD IRONIC,..
Hagins; Yeah,.. I remember ,..We mailed that to Craig ,, we printed up all these copies of that show,..because I "Knew" it was so amazing , My brother Geoff filmed it,..he never liked my band,..but he understood that gig; HE LIKED THAT SHOW !! ,..we had played thousands of gigs,.. but that one was so small and intimate,,.SO SPECIAL ,...it really displayed my genius , vision, for the future of G.e. ,..the future of ALL ROCK !! BUT THEN,..'IT' HAPPENED,..
METAL; That day you saw Nirvana on Mtv,..
Hagins; Yeah,..Flipper confronted me,, he chased me around some cars saying he was gonna beat my ass,..he said; "You got our whole shit stolen Hagins" ,.I'll never forget it,.. I called Aaronson and left him threatening voice-mails,."I was like what the fuck dude,..? You guys can sign us too then !!" Then I found out who this Gary was; "It was Gary Gersh THE A & R GUY AT GEFFEN,. ,..the guy who SIGNED NIRVANA ,.,..THESE 2 GUYS BOTH HUNG Around the South Bay,... I THINK Craig gave him all our shit,..they built it from there,..they saw how organized we were, that we filmed all our shit, took pics,.. We were pros at a level and we didn't even know it,... nobody at the time thought indie rock could do anything,.. these guys "Knew" from STUDYING G.e. ,..OUR FILMS, OUR PICS, OUR BAND,.,..that alternative rock ,..COULD WORK !!!,.,.IT 'COULD' SELL ,...AND IT DID TOO !!
AND IT'S FUNNY,.. because so many people had laughed at me,..especially my own family,..who were never really all that supportive,.. they thought I was an idiot,..told me to dress nicer and shit,..gimme a break,.. sheesh ,.. there were Douchebags tellin' me back then I should dress like Vince Neil,..lol ,,
